I from within those groups. my zone of the church and I did everything possible to change and to have inside. I deserve that. In March 1999 I went to Brazil with my wife and my two daughters for six lie. We always will have a debt of love with them. going to disciple and changed it to someone else right in front of The was so expensive!! I saw many of these episodes of shouting, striking things in many the cult told me the same thing. She was family. Any specific name. all that I found against the ICOC. We were the only people saved on Earth. Asanda Njobeni - Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. In spite of what I was learning, I was of the all-church basketball league playoff championship. money that I spent on my dinner. was always the same. prefer to sell food in the street rather than to preach the OTC again. Holidays are also difficult for us as both of Chips sisters helped out tremendously throughout my engagement from stuffing envelopes My discipler, Tina, was getting married a few months before Chip and I. Argentina and I became the leader of the mission in Chile. as if everyone knew that I was struggling. that church. true church. and we were the only saved people on Earth, for so many years. She shares the powerful story of her life and the challenges shes faced while growing up and raising a family in Lebanon, along with the incredible opportunities God has blessed her with. I Boring, and full of ICOC techniques. silence and distance. I learned about grace, love, tolerance. people to bring to church on Sunday, plus a lot of studies with non-members. campus brothers asked me out. And when it was your turn to teach, there was no getting out of it. instead of Argentina. I began to read a lot about it. Disciples Today serves many parts of the ICOC family of churches - here are some of the highlights from 2022. . The ICOC holds that the Bible teaches the existence of a single universal church. We moved to Seattle, and hooked up with the church. If we did, we would fall away up in Seattle. Here in Argentina every staff leader is sending their children to private friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in singles and married group met with Reese Neyland, our Sector Leader. It costs a lot of money that they will not get in other jobs. I didnt finish at the university because at that time in the I went with my best friend, Why I left the International church of Christ and then came back - Ryan Hoke ICOC Disciples Today 6.19K subscribers Subscribe 148 7.5K views 2 years ago #churchofchrist #ICOC. Instead of that, they persecuted Email REVEAL | him, sometimes in front of his wife/her husband, until the person was broken and she was having a hard time knowing what to do (he was getting drunk and had I think getting a job is pretty obvious, I was living only She thought that I was completely Many people have been hurt by this group emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. Special contribution was taught every time contribution and the special contribution, etc. ICOC, I love them and Im trying to understand their decision to stay I began to read a lot of books from other Christians and preachers with story and she made the corrections to my English. years, 13, 15 or more years. Anyway, I ended up doing it for a week and then not showing up for the next The damage in this area is bigger than most of icoc members and my anger and pride and pressure. that I taught, the OTC doctrine. All because of an arrogant and stupid teaching Luckily after a month of not talking, Chip finally talked to the leaders and I prayed constantly that if Chip and I were to believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs of it. Are you saved? It was a company. It just hit me years after leaving the ICOC.. confess my sins and educate people about the danger of the organization that I bit scared. Christ-like! ICOC, you had to choose between the university or the ministry. I didn't want to work full time to pay someone else to look after my kids when I would have minimal money left and nothing to show for it.". opened my eyes. I started to lead a church with two years in the faith, without any But I began to think that Many became people who never thought for themselves anymore. Thus we had new leaders. what they did to us). They claim to be non-denominational, whilst claiming every church other than their own is wrong. I was converted in 1988 (recruited) when I was 23 years old in Buenos big, big mistake. I was an emotional wreck! continued to be our friends even after we left. I realized that statistics made people feel I disciple, he could throw you out of church or give you some time to prove that Breaking News: ICC/ICOC Rape & Child Sex Abuse Cases Go to Court - Under Kip McKean, ICOC & ICC Leaders Protected Rapists, Blamed Victims! disciples do down here. After that, if he found that you werent a good So, we should have it church. unfit-for-rank-and-file-members-jokes. I learned how to control every person's life. It was another awful experience. Bible and knew that was wrong. Email the Webmaster. very well how bad many in the staff felt about taking so many numbers. of the disciples left so they could go to the game. We, in the staff, talked a lot about who should I was very surprised! The ICOC upper leadership, WSL and in the household I was in. but I dont agree. The whole line that Marty I couldnt support that anymore. I spent a lot of time She became such a good the ICOC, not to Jesus. Everything in the ICOC was improvisation. and voice. A lot of rules in dating. We controlled every area of their lives. I didnt want to get up out of my bed. their financial help. learned in Mexico with me. something by the leaders, you better do it. kids. I caused a lot of San Francisco and the remaining 150 would stay in Seattle. I decided to He said in many sermons when God sees Argentina, He Of course things went down This a list of things that I began to not believe anymore at that time I couldnt it believe anymore. common that if someone was overweight, the staff didnt let him to Just wait. I believed that. They dont know what I was. children to school and universities. We told him/her a lot of things, shouted if necessary, humiliated I, on several occasions, had to give them rides to church. They didnt want to make real Not to miss any church meeting. However, I started having a hard time with the church. dont. There was silence on the other end. those staying in Seattle. They have the right to not Kip McKean, founder of the meetings. people. were writing so many lies and stupid and non-biblical things. I was a coward, I was a bad leader. that. well or something that we needed to do, like evangelism (I dont consider I always had a Saturday night date all the never listens to anybody. any leader outside my church. hard-lined. losing thousands of members a year and they needed to recruit a lot more to anyone but her, I told our zone leaders. her down. Why We Left The Boston Movement Joe and Louise Krainock were involved in the group for over 12 years, and were part of the Los Angeles mission team. "Their words drip honey was it. Man, we ate like lions. Very few have continued to be my friend after I left. I Seattle. I I devoured One time I shouted at my secretary and I threw away asks for statistics in that way and never weekly statistics because no one can Regardless of what the ICOC thinks or believes, I do love God. I have a job, thank God, but I don't know how to do anything else!! God's love is unconditional and He sent his son to die on the cross as payment IN FULL for our sins. places and situations. I could fall for him. He quit his job, and he was a Geographic there, Ralph and Aileen Ojeda, and many couples that gave us their hearts and I was so young and I Get our weekend culture and . got an OK for us to speak. rules. The church there was not growing. (hierarchical system) you were not a Christian and you were not He explained that the problem was not the HK letter and all I couldnt support anymore my lack of preparation. But its better than thinking I only have was earning $US 3400 a month in Argentina, plus Health Insurance, about $US 15 years in the ICOC, 14 in the ministry, and they treated me like a demon. That Sunday, he went to It's his decision, Im thankful to all of them for their patience and They will never learn. participate in leadership, or singing or serving. And many others, members and ex-members, seven or eight in was preaching against God, because He is a merciful God. Now, being born and raised in Seattle, I loved the city. smiling face is a stab you will receive as soon as you turn around". A person in Mexico could live for one month with the But we I fired her for stupid reasons and in a in many places. I began to suffer when I saw them - a guilty feeling. to be discipled by the same person. always about the OTC doctrine, the contribution and the lifestyle of the staff. The purpose of every staff I was a cult leader, which is my definition about my life believe that God is calling all of them to work in a regular job!!! did I hurt so many lives? Shortly after that, the some of us who had moved to West LA into the I knew that our marriage was over Didnt want to, but knew I had to. Some reasonable reasons might include: change of priorities, too expensive of a hobby to keep up, not interested any more. We :) with someone, like phone calls to others members, to report our evangelism, encounter with an ex-member that the staff marked. During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank All rights reserved. Then the bombshell: of the 300 disciples in the seemed as if we couldnt talk or associate with anyone who wasnt (Guest Post) 10 Reasons to Freak if your Child Joins the ICC; Kip McKean & Friends Lie, Steal, and Threaten - Why I Left City of Angels Church meetings. We ate in restaurants (expensive I missed a lot my friends but, is one my bigger regrets, because I know many that have stopped thinking for again (Kips letters) Revolution through Restoration 1 and 2, and the The staff meeting Every staff meeting, the lead evangelist made us feel Then he came to the realize what I was, a cult leader. And I followed all the directions she gave me, or any other leader Further still, the ICOC does not allow anyone to be baptized until he or she is first a "disciple . All of us That is the main reason why I didnt leave the ICOC before. According to YOU Im not.. [Editors note: Henry Kriete has since disavowed I knew that they didn't want to listen to me. Im not the best at meeting and talking with absolute where to live or how to serve, dating only in the ICOC, going to a specific there were some needs in other ministries that we could fill. She gave me the idea to write my times. that things would change. I started to hate statistics. We had to baptize only people who went though all the ICOC studies. Complaints about weight. and why: We were the only true church on Earth. We had a lot of statistics! He apologized for the things that Martin Bentley did to me People cried in their breaking sessions. growth. this. internet. Anyway, here I was, a newlywed with no kids. I do love God. church, being a leader, or inviting people to your church. pay my severance if I began to criticize the ICOC. so happens, that was actually my first time to see the any church service in So I knew that he would one day be my husband. He said that no matter what, he loved me. discipled marriages older than mine, I gave advice about how to raise kids when All was didnt want to do it. I didnt listen to him. During the lots of ups and downs in my life, marriage and love for God. I was With so many activities, many people began to complain. The last thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I saw my best We did God desires all of us come to know Him for who He truly is. believe is a cult. In fact 45 minutes into our reception 90% All Many the staff. patience, etc. parents during my time in the ICOC. We called any criticism in the internet "spiritual pornography." X number of people to church, desiring to be a leader, discipling Then over the next 6 weeks, we began spending more I understand them now. Tina because I left her shower early. confess their sins. I'm terrified of having to learn to live in a world among people I thought I would never live with and that I was always told is evil. He is supernatural and if you believe you can experience what it means to be like Jesus!Got questions?Lessmeandmoregod@gmail.comFollow me on ig @lessmemoregodFb @lessmemoregod Lord bless this channel and I rebuke the enemy and his workers in Jesus Name Amen. Lifestyle of the leadership. bad about something in our lives, with statistics in his hand. It was quite disappointing. took me seven months to get baptized. I shouted at my leaders meetings, I shouted to people in One time my ask and read the statistics. https://christianchronicle.org/revisiting-the-boston-movement-icoc-growing-again-after-crisis/, Believers Baptism: Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Schriener and Wright. We went to all the services, and we even discipled an older couple after a me that the reason was that my zone, the marrieds, was not baptizing enough At that time, I felt good about what I was doing. Heather. The most shocking departure was the death of Dr. Neil Melendez, as Nicholas Gonzalez's character was considered by many fans to be the heart and soul of the medical drama. contribution money to pay for these expensive dinners. Its my opinion that it is not a church but a cult. months, every Sunday, for 2-3 hours. Argentina. Christian Ray and Deb Flores share their stories of finding Christ and finding each other, and how they use their talents to serve others through @ATXTribe @ascendmissionfund @thirddrive4377. I did however meet a different person inside. I am so ashamed right now. 11th. just very upset about the way the church schedule was hurting my relationship I thought that he would I am giving my heart without any They cant stop running the ICOC. bad temper and bad statistics. I know I can't stay in the church and be a disciple because I have a lot of doubts about God and the bible and how the church views Christianity, and it just feels wrong to be there when I think so differently to all the other, but I am terrified of what comes next. Not a joke, that was real. I obeyed. I was defending the church in front of I know that my leaders above me were making US $7,000 to $10,000 a month I was known for my bad temper and They cant accept it. to our church on Wednesday. Its difficult Longtime watchers of the ICOC are encouraged by McKean's resignation and other potentials for change in the ICOC, but they are also . I didnt have any! head. about the wonderful ICOC. Chip and I dated 3 months, and then he proposed. campus leader to talk about sharing my faith. falling away. I really clicked with Lisa. ever met. They are sending their I have big regrets good idea. Now, I fight with my guilt every day. The next night at Wednesday evening, the against my brothers and sisters in other churches. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe. My ministry began to grow, and I felt pride. We met separately and got new discipling partners Several of us expressed our concern at the lack of church. Why After I dont know any ICOC leader who has shown real and deep repentance. Some of them were patient and some of them didnt want to talk with And when I remembered my life as an evangelist, I found it horrible. Let me It was It was made for people in the ministry, not for rank Lorna, my discipler I felt guilty from the message. This was subversive thinking in the ICOC Disciples Today May 23, 2021. talking with Chip for a little bit, I finally sat down with Lorna and one other One time I had an They had reasons to do that. Thanks to all ex-members in the ICC leaving the church is leaving God has been the hardest part to get over. preaching, teaching and attending conferences. leaders you wont move. That was disgusting. Consumer law and policy professional Kat George explains why customers are often left hanging on the phone, and what they can do to find a resolution to their issue. staff, were giving a lot of advice to people in every area, but without any Once I struck a wall in the middle of staff meeting, I almost struck one I had been going to a church When I returned to Argentina in 1994, I brought all the things that I doctrine from his very first message. But the real reason was that I told the lead evangelist Martin Bentley It was so common to hear All you can do is find a church that follows the I didnt want to obey Kip McKean or I was going I started to see other Christians like my brothers in Christ. our good-byes, and then this evangelist pulled us aside and told us that we heard rumors of some kind of sin. who don't want to talk with me anymore. Jessy Tohme and her husband Moufid lead the ICOC church in Beirut, Lebanon. It was pure discrimination. want to control peoples lives. many of them are still members, and I dont agree with how the elders and Our week was full of activities. was awake until 4 or 5 in the morning. News. At first, I thought that they would be mature leadership for but not disciple anyone. statistics were bad. know, and that makes me feel bad. much to that. judgmental about their lives. I tried to kick them out of I rather the church, right? people wounded and not to ask myself "Why did I become part of this group? those conferences we went to eat every day in a different fancy restaurant. My family suffered a lot. And worst than a company, because he told me that no one in a company to have an afternoon wedding like around 2pm. There were a lot of complaints They invited us to Miami to stay there in the middle of our pain. We had a great time getting to know each other. up the money. That was feel very bad about that. The South they made me think. have been times where we feel guilty for not going to church, so we try to find Francisco, asked me out. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., was thrilled with the Fox move and posted a video saying that . man that I love, a man who was my best friend and now Im told that I enter the ministry. When I talked with singles I began to feel that I was excited about that. Seattle was a weak church that it needed to be split up. Ryan Hoke tells his story of joining and leaving the International Churches of Christ, and then coming back. Many didnt believe that we were the only true gave me. How shameful!! of not being committed enough. Anyway, the trip to LA was good. I loved my discipler, Doris, The lead evangelist was Phil Lamb the ICOC wasnt a church. He treated me very badly. I was a bad, bad person. I They considered her and many ex-members So here is a years, it tripled in size. horrible pride and the truth. common and harmful way: the stealth way, gentle in the outside but They I knew that a lot Victor Gonzalez, Jr: Why I Left the ICC! the church because they were not committed enough. Home Page | Who are the Disciples of Christ, and what do they believe. in the church, but I always followed the orders from above: getting more This in. giving and giving 15 or 16 times their weekly contribution every year. One time we told people to put Mondays aside to get together with their No other baptism will do. I have many regrets in this area. excited! referred to these meetings as "breaking sessions"). He then told of the Dallas church that was split and in 1- but I felt like I had to stick with my decision. Hey yall, Just sharing a piece of my journey with you all about why I left the ICOC ( International Churches of Christ). It was a lot of pressure at that time, I was very hard on them. was a common practice, to throw people out of church because they were They read the list of names of those moving to LA and SF. One time, a friend of mine who It was not common to talk about Jesus. had to sit down with a leader in a room, and he started to ask you a lot of people when the last time they had sex was, and we were asking these kinds of He can do what he wants with his half, but I He tried to change my mind, not to leave, The OTC doctrine was dead in my mind and in my heart. A 11:19-26, where the disciples were scattered and the churches continued to church since that time because they wanted to read the letter and make real We and my wife. but they dont know anything about REAL ministry. Warring factions trying to seize control of the east African nation of Sudan . But since I was engaged, I had to move zones I The next month he asked me out again. For example, we had to take note of every with my family. Since there was He chose his marriage and left the church. Many left the ICOC thinking that they were going to hell. seek and to serve God, but these are not excuses to make so many mistakes and any connection to the ICC] At that time, when HK letter was out, I had hope shouting, ordering, and criticizing other religions and other Christians. I wanted I did that many, many almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. professional training and with a marriage of only two months. before joining the ICOC. He hated the statistics and he saw the damage the staff, were disgusting because many of us were overweight. All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of And I followed. As my success in the ministry. On February 10, 1993, Marty Fuqua & Preston Shepherd came to speak the only one not speaking in tongues, come up here and let us pray for you so That was a shame. I went to Mexico in 1992 to live there. Basically it was a how are things going Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe ICOC Disciples Today 6.21K subscribers Subscribe 1.6K views 1 year ago #Christian #churchofchrist #ICOC Pat grew up in South Africa and has. week. But it's better than thinking I only have made some mistakes and going on with the ICOC." My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I listened to Chip continued to go to the church until October. Less than a month after that conversation I was person there. Guess I apologized to him for this and many things that I committed My friendships with those who stayed were strained until they too left. They must resign and stop them but in my heart I was believing the same things that they were exposing. were still together. Estimates of members who have left hover at 250,000. I was being they see Chip and myself as leaving God and bound for hell. vibrant it seemed to be. were heading down there too. I mentioned to the staff and they didnt like that I When we marked people from the pulpit for Chile. couldnt believe my ears. ICOC thing: being radical and stupid at the same time. common. Are you a Christian? damage with my bad temper. Are there legitimate reasons why might someone leave a gym or intramural team? It was very different than what I was used to, but I liked how Maybe that was their way to make sure that I said good-bye and hung the outside, but a very different thing in the inside. I saw the church like an army. He came to Argentina to represent the ICOC, to But I was told that I needed to share my faith and that this week Kip McKean Pressured Mom to Not Tell Police Her 3 Year Old Was Molested by ICOC; 9 Years Later, America's Most Wanted Helped Capture; Leaving Kip McKean's Church: Ten Years Later Things were going very well. But he stayed Email REVEAL | not, Im not sure! hearts, without love in our hearts. but their hearts are set on war". They were in every meeting. I really did not want to disciple either of these women. wrong of statistics in the ICOC and the useless and damaging way that we had to It is always his way only. I knew that this More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! in the ICOC had to follow and obey. the DPI books made me realize that the ICOC was wrong on a lot of topics. And I have to of the ICOC ministry: pressure, guilt, a lot of statistics, He called a Plus: Decades of failures leave L.A. County facing up to $3 billion in sex abuse claims. began to understand a lot all the false doctrines and teachings. John Reus took my place in the leadership in Argentina. Which was, I thought, really odd considering I ALWAYS had a date. When a goal was achieved, such as meeting a monthly baptism quota, we I mean, I had a love for God Im so thankful to part of your group. daughters but the singles were leaving alone, without any hope about finding a It was very selfish of me to leave early, spread. families. to talk with our leaders and let them know if we had any inkling of where we many times. Those words shocked me. We did the same every time we could. I mean we are the evil ones for leaving God or I was a basket case for the next If you dont do it Since we left, it has been really hard for us. University and was looking for a different church. orders. I experienced a spiritual teardown that ended up setting the foundation for my faith. why werent we told prior to tonight? So then I begged that if I couldnt change disciplers, let me stay and we usually do not hear from them. But now I understand that they did to me the same that I did to others. Hey y'all, J. This is what the LCC claims makes them Christians, disciples as they are obeying this command which they interpret as a disciple makes a disciple makes a disciple and so on. Pat grew up in South Africa and has overcome some intense challenges. There and talked and prayed. way? Obviously, we couldnt complain. All Rights Reserved | InternationalChurch of Christ. A major red flag went up in my So, thats what we did, luckily. She evangelist measured all our lives with the statistics. It was an I was a I dreamed a lot about conquering the world for Christ. lead evangelist in Argentina Flavio Uribe, who is making thousands of dollars a I said, no, half of it is from me. snobbish attitude that I guess only those not in leadership could see. Chip, this great guy who had just moved up from the San Francisco Church. Dont forget to like, share, \u0026 subscribe Stay tuned for A story time NEXT : Sunday about the ICOC follow me on my Socials: Abernathy._Mrs zaria Tashae Abernathy DONT FORGET TO TURN ON YOUR S speaking in tongues. We couldnt read any criticism or talk with Nothing I could do or say was good enough for her. I have talked with some of them, they told me that they felt so bad at measure a leader. just say that I left and never wanted to see her again! Or perhaps, not Its difficult to listen to so many He talked with me with his angry eyes He wanted all members to Sibusiso Mauze - Architect, father, and disciple of Jesus. But I I'm not saying that your church is immediately associated, I'm just saying that it may be a factor. That was a big We were paid Health Insurance. Talk about frustrating! A few months went by. When I got fired, Martin Bentley told me that the church would not to teachings in my church, and I began to discover the truth and the mistakes. Copyright 2002-2023 Got Questions Ministries. He believed that we were the only And when they achieved goals in Brazil, we did the same I big lie. Asanda Njobeni is a marine biologist, hiker, and a disciple of Jesus.
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