True Andy. when there is no obvious enemies noted for the periods? You mention that the word giant is not mentioned in 1 Samuel 17. Which span of years were our bones from to compare? How many people does it take, how far ranging geographically, and time-wise, however, are all good questions. Even in the 1800s care was taken, although it was not as admittedly sophisticated as it is today. Thanks for your response. The Israelite Diet: What Did the Ancient Israelites Eat? However that Anakim were descendants of Nephilim and that Nephilim were usually tall (and that Nephilim existed post-flood in the first place, for that matter) all comes from one single verse: an evil report (Num 13, see vss. Neanderthal fossils lack the predominant chin of humans and a last set of molars. If he was taller than Wadlow, then he too would have also outgrew his nervous system just as Wadlow did, meaning like Wadlow he wouldnt have been able to walk without a cane. They have some physical differences, but those are not that easy to spot. If the LXX was accepted by the early church (and it was! Thanks again for reading and for your comments. 2. Randy, I would LOVE if a follow-up to this would ever be possible. Thanks for your comment. It would be akin today to saying that the only people who live in New York City are Americans, or the only people living in London are English. Since the average height in the ancient Near East was between 5 feet and 53, and since archaeology seems to confirm this (at least to this point), and since the textual evidence leans toward the reading of 4 cubits and a span, I conclude that Goliath was most probably on the taller side of the 6-foot range, as opposed to the 9-foot range of the MT. He changed the text to create a brother for Goliath so he could give credit to Elhanan for his death. At its center is a mound of loose stones over 65 feet in diameter and over 16 feet tall, covering a central chamber carved into solid rock. In the apocryphal book of Enoch, I think some are given names, but I'm pretty sure Leviathan, Behemoth, and Goliath are not them. Im 62 and used to work for a man who was 67, I wouldnt like to get in a fight with him. The Nephilim are referenced in Genesis and Numbers and are possibly referred to in Ezekiel. My desire is to examine the text and to the best of my ability to understand which reading is the most likely. Although I have always been inclined toward the reading of the MT, as noted above, I must admit that Hays presents some strong arguments. On this particular passage, however, bible scholar, J. Daniel Hays argues in a very convincing way for the reading found in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSam[a]) and the Septuagint (LXX). 11:22). This dual arrangement, circles of stones near a serpentine mound, appears in several places around the world where it was known to be used as a necropolis for this form of burial, Landa explained. In my opinion, this may be the case here. It stretches all reason and reality to say that the Nephilim were 130 or 450 feet tall. Shortly thereafter she became pregnant with a child and named him Lahmi., Funny stuff Greg. Please disregard any other race of people in your response such as Egyptians, Asians, Mongolians, Ashkenazians, or Khazarians. When I read this story in the bible and took time to figure out the size , it came up to 9 and 6 tall. Physically, they were not different than us. There are theories that claim that Og was buried at Gilgal Refaim, Landa said. If hes 99 then, he needed a cane to walk like everyone 8 foot and taller did. At 6 feet, 8 inches (202 centimeters) tall, the man would have been a giant in third-century A.D. Rome, where men averaged about 5 and a half feet (167 centimeters) tall. The subject can easily become sensationalized, and Landa stressed that he did not want to take that approach. Notches in the walls indicate the spring and fall equinoxes. Randy, I have found this article and comments to be very interesting! by manipulating the text to falsely state that Elhanan did not kill Goliath but his brother Lahmi. Especially if the people have a past history of being part of that bordering culture. I wish we could go back in time and see these things Arian! If you are asking who the tallest man in the Bible is, its difficult to say because the Bible does not tell us. I have written an article (which can be found on this blog) which was published by Bibliotheca Sacra (July-Sept. 2015) entitled How Many Sons Did Absalom Have? However, while 1 Samuel 17 does not call Goliath a giant, there are two other passages that infer he was a descendant of the Nephilim. Not one time. The Chronicles account only helps to clear up the confusion. How an a soldier fight if they cant hardly walk? He couldnt hardly walk, because he outgrew his nervous system, needing a cane to walk- tragically thats what killed him, because he needed braces for his legs, which ultimately cut him, since he couldnt feel it, didnt know, and the infection led to his death. Hi Keith, The description of his tall stature certainly suggests a connection with the descendants of the Nephilim. The discussion in this thread is so silly. His most popular height estimate is 164cm which people often use in non game based height charts and his datamined height was around that mark as well 162cm. Today we would think anyone taking every statement we make literally as either not being very discerning or having a poor grasp of the rules of grammar. Its more realistic Goliath would have been in the high 7 foot range tops. Newton goes into extensive detail regarding not only why the sacred Egyptian cubit was around 25 inches, but also that this cubit significantly impacted the Hebrew use of this cubit. So he must have been even taller then King Saul by a great measure therefore causing great fear perhaps humiliating Sauls position as the great King of Israel. The dittography in the text and the other problems dont change this fact. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_the_Giant, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Khali, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rogan. So how large is large? The word for cubit in verse 4 and hundredin verse 7 look very similar in Hebrew. WebThe Nephilim in Hebrew is translated to fall and is interpreted by many as the Fallen Angels due to mentions in ancient texts. November 11, 2018 Randy, I have heard a similar approach before by others, but it creates a whole new issue with the baseline that is more difficult to determine. Landas search for the truth also brought him to Gilgal Refaim (Wheel of the Giants), an enigmatic rock formation in the Golan. Although many people think that the Nephilim were all killed by Archangel Gabriel, due to Gods command, there might be some left alive. Then define ancient. They are Giants! God bless! Saul is said to be head and shoulders above everyone else. Most people cruise right over that passage. I have really enjoyed reading this article. 21:19. I appreciate it! The smaller man is a fighter and isnt intimidated at all by height. This is a well-known copying mistake called parablepsis (a looking by the side). So that is a tall guy. Furthermore, 2 Samuel 21:15-22 relates four stories of Philistines who are killed by Davids men. Descendants of Category 2. Nyuck, Nyuck as Curly of the Three Stooges would always SAY!! 20:5 is not a late product manufactured to ease the contradiction in 2 Sam. NIV. God bless! 2. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. nef'-i-lim (nephilim): This word, translated "giants" in the King James Version, but retained in the Revised Version (British and American), is found in two passages of The reference to Rapha in 2 Samuel 21 doesnt really mean giant, although the Rephaim were considered to be a very tall people. Thanks, Randy. I appreciate your reading of the article and your reply. So, someone decided to add a few cubits to Goliaths height making him 6 cubits and a span. I believe in the cubic inches that Galiaths height and the Armies weight he wore was a giant probably approximately 99 almost ten feet tall giving God all the Glory that No matter how short or tall a man can be God is able to stand against anyone that defys this great God. If some come to light that would be fascinating. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. Maybe the later manuscripts were compensating for this? Most of the information about them comes from Genesis 6:4: The Nephilim were on the earth in those You and others in the blog have sparked my interest. Its more likely David would have been around 5 foot or so (very realistic for the period), and Goliath around 7-ish (another realistic amount for the period). You find out in Chapter 14 of Numbers as well as Chapter 13 of Numbers that the report given was a bad/evil report. Well heres the thing. However, two considerations should be borne in mind. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. None of it adds up to a story worth telling if he was only 69. Im also a little familiar with David Rohls work. But to date the evidence points to the normal height of individuals being what I stated in the article5-5.3ft. there is no reason why he would have feared him. And what about the enormous grape bunches they carried out. The Inspiration Networks are considering the distribution channel for the film and expect to release Angels & Giants: The Watchers & Nephilim this fall. The notion that Goliaths brother must be from Gath originally, means he couldnt possibly have fought a battle and died in another Philistine town called Gob is ludicrous. Here are a few examples: If Goliath was 61 he would have only been about 3 inches taller than Saul (if that), not really a giant. You are going on supposition here, not hard proven evidence. Thank you for making what sounded like a complex issue clear and understandable. Im not saying the giants were 30 ft. tall but Im also not saying only a foot or so taller. However, this sounds more like some of the conspiracy theories you read on the web. Nuriel The Angel of Hailstorms and Spellbinding, Transcendental Meditation Vs Mindfulness Meditation. To add to the confusion, in the ancient Near East, some countries had what was known as the royal cubit, as well as the common cubit, which would be a bit shorter. Thank you for your kind words Dr. Marcus. Look at Robert Wadlow (the one mentioned who was 8 feet, 11.1 inches tall at last measurement). Im sure Goliath was massive. WebRT @xreamm: Nephilim height chart https://t.co/Cr43cm8kWG. It is a misinterpretation of Scripture to take statements that are hyperbolic and make them literal. However, I still believe the external evidence that Hays produces argues for the 4 cubits and a span reading. - POV mod would get very wonky as model manipulation happens to make the scenes look good in third-person. They are Giants! Thanks! The MT (from which the reading 99 comes from) has a history that goes back to the BC time period. There was clearly a very intelligent design behind the site, Landa noted. Nor where there any True giants after Deuteronomy. Since Gath can also be considered a border town. Again, Im not sure how he defends that. Anytime there is a suggested reading that is different, I want to hang on to the reading of the MT. Thanks for your comments. Likewise King Saul (Hebrew asked for because the people asked for a king) is the historical Labaya. Other markings indicate star risings. I have always just read the Bible (KJ, NKJ, NIV, etc.) I agree, Tom! 13:3233 ). A fascinating read. Perspective from God is critical when confronting evil. It is clear that 2 Sam. Humans are NOT like whales who live in the ocean I looked into this matter further. Sons of God mated with the daughters of man and created Giants, Elioud and Nephilim according to Book of Enoch. Goliath had 3 relatives later killed not sure their height was recorded. Average height of Jewish men in David's time is said to be about 5 feet tall. Furthermore, Josephus, living in the first century AD is also a witness to the reading 4 cubits and a span.. Nephilim, the original giants that could reach the size or almost the size of skyscrapers (which isnt unbelievable when you look at how high planes can go before air becomes a bother). Hays says that a scribe copying the manuscript accidentally looked down at verse 7 and saw the number 6 (as in six hundred) and copied it into verse 4. God bless, 489-508). Likewise Elhanan the one who killed Goliath, is simply the birth name of King David. plus idea. Thats whats going to happen in the future when someone digs up former NBA players in 100 years! 6 cubits and a span using an 18 inch system still puts Goliath between that 9 and 10 foot range. So for me, the 8ft+ or 9ft theory is acceptable since we also found many 7ft+ bodies too on the neighbor islands too. Only by examining the evidence, which includes the height of people in the ancient world, the relative lengths of a cubit and span, and the textual evidence for the most reliable reading, will we be be able to come to a conclusion that seems plausible. Their joints, were larger; their bones thicker. In the end, what matters is that faith in, and zealousness for, YeHoVaH will lead us to victory and keep us humble: the battle always belongs to Him. The Samuel text is well-known for having suffered in transmission. I assure you this is not an attempt to do away with what the Bible says. I am a believer and see the Bible as Gods inspired Word. Landa explained that Gilgal Refaim aligns with significant astronomical phenomena. 1Sam. So, Goliath was a giant. You are, of course, welcome to respond. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. and assumed it was correct. and they can be found all over the world. Behind the Scenes Universe To The Most High be the Glory, If Goliath had been 30 feet tall the out come would have been the same. The point of the article is to examine Scripture and see where the evidence leads. Furthermore, although 1 Chronicles does not include the story of David and Goliath, he notes that where 1 Chronicles is parallel with 1&2 Samuel, Chronicles always agrees with the reading of 4QSam(a) and the LXX when it differs from the MT. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. No Randy, the Chroniclers text is a deliberate harmonization of the text to resolve the conflict. If we all see its Goliath was bigger than a re guar men in that time and even bigger than Saul otherwise it would not emphasize his height, but the whole point is that the spirit of GOD was with David, so the stone was purposely driven by GOD not the man David. These are the heights we frequently hear referenced by pastors and teachers when commenting on 1 Samuel 17:4. Peter. This is well documented in a work of his that friends published in 1737 after his death. If you are not sure, these few characteristics might convince you if that person was, in fact, a Nephilim or an offspring. I have no problem with those who want to assert that Goliath was 9 ft. tall. For example, the royal cubit in Egypt was 20.65 inches, while in Babylonia it was 19.8 inches (Clyde E. Billington, GOLIATH AND THE EXODUS GIANTS: HOW TALL WERE THEY?, JETS, 50/3, 2007, pp. WebThe most notable feature of the Nephilim is their colossal size, with some measuring between 15 to 20 feet (4,5 to 6 meters) in height, although there is evidence of Nephilim up to 328 or 656 feet (100 or 200 meters) in height, I am also taking into consideration the average height of the time and the fact that no large skeletons have yet (and I emphasize yet) been uncovered through archaeology. Hays also argues that it is much easier to explain how 4 cubits was changed to 6 cubits rather than the other way around. In the original piece of folklore Goliath only needed to be 69. Its a fascinating study and one that nicely demonstrates how the bible has been changed over time. 6 feet tall). Randy. What does the grass hopper claim illustrate. The point is, however, that here is a scholar who is convinced by text form that the Chronicles reading is legit. A six-foot tall man cant possibly appear to be tall enough to be an intimidating danger to the Israeli army. Maybe the four cubits could be the measurements taken from Goliaths dead body. Billington estimates that a person who is 5 feet tall would have a span of about 7 1/2 inches. Hofniel Hofniel is a really enigmatic angel. As to your final point. WebMany texts have confirmed Goliath as a Nephilim. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Seriously, Lahmi? I appreciate your thoughtful response. Hi David, I have done a good amount of studying on this subject and would just love to go back and forth with someone and what not. Different psychics and mediums claim that they can recognize Nephilim and people with Nephilim ancestry. even allegorically this would not make sense. Then, approximately 700 years later the Chronicler came along and tried to harmonize the conflicting stories of Goliaths demise found in 1 Sam. Some unsurmountable hurdles in the way of Goliath being a descendant of Nephilim are: This is yet another example of a Canaanite people (of large size) living in Philistine cities. Mostly through Patterns of Evidence and a YouTube video I saw when he talked about the need to revise Egyptian chronology. That is the way we all learn. Given that the common height of an ancient Israelite was somewhere between 5 feet and 5 feet 3 inches, this could make the common cubit somewhere between 16-17 inches. Scripture indicates that there were giants on the earth in those days and also afterwards. The story never refers to Goliath as a giant. We know not much information about him. Did we compare the bones of 10,000 men from the ancient world stretching from Asia, to the Middle East and then average their height? It is a misnomer to think that only Philistines lived in Philistine cities or that only Israelites lived in Israelite cities. If you check the Hebrew text, Goliath is never referred to as a giant. It makes more sense if they updated and not changed the cubits. Thank you for writing. I would encourage you to read some of my responses in the comment section and also encourage you to read other articles of mine.
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