i have had 3 done here by ed strain that included rebuild with remagnatized body for a little more than $200.00. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. If you have a plug tester available that adds simulated compression pressure (using air pressure) to the end of the exposed plug while firing voltage to it you will see the more pressure the higher kv the plug needs to fire correctly. We will check all the parts of the magneto for faults and will provide a firm quotation for a repair along with a description of the magneto repair required. long practical experience of working on magnetos and Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. classic owners. If the timing is not correct on both lobes, the reason could be that: the contact-breaker assembly is wobbly on the end of the armature; the cam or its housing were incorrectly machined (rare); with ring-cam magnetos, the armature and cam are not coaxial due to the outer race of the bearing at the contact-breaker end not being seated properly by its insulator in the cam housing. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. Measure the resistance between the magneto body and terminal in one and then the other of the the plug caps. heavier the better. slip rings and pick-ups for Lucas and BTH If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. We can adapt for most applications. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. I got it back, spun it, sparked. Deutsch I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. After a full rebuild my motor started right up, rode for 5 minutes, stopped, no spark. Hi group, It is summer in Denmark, nice but my Lucas KF2 Magneto do not like high temperatures. Open the points and blow between them to dislodge any remnants of paper. Take a look at some of the equipment we This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. IMPORTANT. In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. Voltage across the primary coil results in a proportional voltage being induced across the secondary winding of the coil. A simple magneto (an electrical generator using permanent magnets) is able to produce relatively low voltage electricity, however it is unable to produce the high voltages required by a spark plug as used in most modern engines (aside from diesel engines). specially-selected, top-quality, British-made but enjoy doing it, with confidence, relying on the Check the condition of the HT lead(s) and plug-cap(s) and replace where necessary. Nederlandse If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. 0000000016 00000 n An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Upgrade your membership to At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. We provide (Japanese) -- Tickover, pulling away, and low-speed running erratic. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing We rectifiers (and wiring diagrams) of use to all "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. Copyright 2000-2020 by, ---------- Post added at 08:44:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39:49 AM ----------. 0000003162 00000 n A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. trailer Don't want this buried as I 'm hoping for some possible answers today. Excellent "how-to". Posts: 34. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. We recommend using non-resistive (copper) cable and unsuppressed plug caps. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. What else could possibly be grounding this? One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. that more owners can not only maintain their magnetos, This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in https://www.smokstak.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=294172&stc=1&d=1508717862. downloadable drawings for those of you who The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. Not quite as large as ideal, but simple. Coil may still function somewhat and not completely failed but ratio of turns lost because of insulation breakdown. Dansk If your magneto does not have an EasyCap but it fitted with a condenser buried in the armature, then it is impossible to check the condition of the condenser, while the armature is assembled, without specialised equipment. 0000005012 00000 n Replace if necessary. information aggregated from many sources. rebuilding magnetos and of how to extract an I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. read more deeply). Also, some pattern contact-breaker assemblies are too large at the fat end and need to be filed or ground to size. have a small choice of reconditioned A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. performance. startxref [2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. instruments available for immediate use, and a As the magnet moves with respect to the coil, the magnetic flux linkage of the coil changes. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. yourselves. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. 0000001015 00000 n Svensk It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs.The older term "high-tension" means "high-voltage".Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil . With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. If your multimeter can measure capacitance, the reading should be within 10% of: 150 nF (0.15 uF) for the C01, C02, C03, C05 and CU/150 EasyCaps; 220 nF (0.22 uF) for the C06, C07 and CU/220 EasyCaps. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. The family of Bijan Ghaisar, shot dead by two U.S. Park Police officers as he slowly drove his Jeep Grand Cherokee away from them in 2017, agreed to settle their lawsuit against the . It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. Our Photo-sequences of stripping and The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. Gift Article. English The likely culprits are: Set the timing of the ignition in accordance with the machines handbook. insulators; and timing discs. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors to suit the needs of a customer. Franaise Deutsch Lucas Magneto 1930 - 1940. 82 0 obj<> endobj or Replace the cam, ensuring that the notches in it engage as before (e.g. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The place to buy our EasyCap condensers This was examined earlier. Checked it over and found no spark. This Lucas KVF magneto was rebuilt 7,000 miles ago and failed at around 3,000 miles with loss of spark on one cylinder. I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. After a series of checks, I sent it back to the rebuilder. Great post! grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). here. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. The gap will widen as the wire ends melt further apart and soon the adjacent turns will be affected so the coil will eventually fail. Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). Tri-Spark Ignitions; Pazon Ignitions; Lucas Rita; AGM Batteries For Classics; Lucas Alternators; Rectifiers & Voltage Control; Dynamo Parts; Magneto Parts; Lucas SR Magneto Spares; HT Coils For Classic Bikes; British Bike Points & Condensers; . A capacitor is placed across the points which absorbs the energy stored in the leakage inductance of the primary coil, and slows the rise time of the primary winding voltage to allow the points to open fully. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. patterns for shims, gaskets and bearing Check the cam surface. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. We are unfortunately not able to offer Joined: Oct 2009. Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. part-exchange. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. The reading will probably be a fraction of an ohm. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. commonly found on classic motorcycles. fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. If not provided with a safety gap, there is a risk of expensive damage. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. One or more times per revolution, just as the magnet pole moves away from the coil and the magnetic flux begins to decrease, a cam opens the contact breaker (called "the points" in reference to the two points of a circuit breaker) and interrupts the current. From the basic to the complex - some The magneto is rebuilt by a reputable US shop. use in our workshop for magneto servicing Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. Put it on bike, timed, no spark. A lot of carbon dust on the inside of the pick-up indicates that the brush is too soft, in which case it should be replaced with a brush of the correct grade. Norsk I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. and overhauls. Or what else could be causing this? Wrap some rag around the end of a stick about 1/4 diameter, moisten it with petrol or other cleaning fluid (but not so much that it is dripping), poke it through the pick-up hole in the magneto body, and rotate the armature to clean the slip ring. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. If the magnet is full strength and the spark at the points looks right then I would still say you have a coil problem with some shorted turns or something. If the reading is less than 3000 ohms, it would be unusual, but is indicative of a problem. tour of some of our specialised workshop The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Really need a coil tester. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. March 21, 2020 in Technical. To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. is it rebuilt? They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). things we think matter when it comes to magnetos and. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. You must log in or register to reply here. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. JavaScript is disabled. dynamos, regulators, alternators and Another cause of atom disorientation is mechanical shock, hammer blows or dropping the unit onto a hard surface, etc. 0000002847 00000 n BTW, Michael, that's a darn clever trick/solution! Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. This expediential degradation may appear to be sudden when the fault occurs. If there are any, replace the pick-up. When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. 2. "Colonel fair is fair: if I nail Hotlips and punch Hawkeye can I go home too?". Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. If you are using an auto-advance timing gear, stuff a length of fuel line in the mech to hold it at full . Sign up for a new account in our community. Svensk It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. 0000006372 00000 n magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. . In more modern times, insulation materials have improved to the point where constructing self-contained magnetos is relatively easy, but energy transfer systems are still used where the ultimate in reliability is required such as in aviation engines. I do not know it all but I will try to help. Espaol If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. The wires are copper core with non resistor caps. A The reading should be between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms greater than your first reading. Could be bad parts if spark just gets a lot weaker but if spark totally goes away when cap and rotor are installed, be sure the when you install them it does not short out the primary, give the rotor a closer ground to jump to or hold the points open, etc. The air gap allows the voltage to build on the rotor until it is high enough to jump the gap thus it actually magnifies it somewhat. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Because it requires no battery or other source of electrical energy, the magneto is a compact and reliable self-contained ignition system, which is why it remains in use in many general aviation applications. Any high tension magneto will have way more than 7 ohms resistance on the secondary circuit. The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Some have both types of earth brush. Some original units are still in service today. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Thanks again. This disables the magneto to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Franaise how they work; and to collate as much other If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. As the points begin to open, point spacing is initially such that the voltage across the primary coil would arc across the points. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. These faults do not necessarily occur instantaneously, they may develop over time leading to a gradual deterioration of the spark output. I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. Don't flame, hate, spam. It's easy! - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently When the magneto is supposed to fire, the flyweights are released by the action of the body contacting the trigger ramp. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. If higher than that, investigate. That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. %%EOF To maintain a dedicated website that covers the I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. If your magneto is loosing spark after a short amount of time running, or is hard to start it is most likely a condenser failure. I think it may be do to condensor failure. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not Now let the slip ring dry out with the pick-ups still removed. JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. Free access to service and repair Do similar tests with the HT lead(s) and the plug-cap(s). As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. books. To do this, measure the resistance between the magneto body and the end of the armature shaft. Copyright 2023, Antique Automobile Club of America. %PDF-1.5 % a separate spring-loaded holder (Lucas) or hidden at the back of the contact breaker plate (BT-H). The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. I'm working on a Lucas Mag right now for the first time and this is extremely helpful. Please phone or email for details. 0000005468 00000 n A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. 82 23 "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". found elsewhere on the internet or in the All rewound units now have modern condensers and enameled wire. JVC 4VR-5436X 4 Channel Stereo Receiver Service Manual Original. If there is a groove where a lubricating felt should be, but is missing, consider making and fitting a replacement. I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . Dansk troubleshooting your magneto. DIY Magneto Maintenance and Troubleshooting With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's If excessively worn, replace the heel (BTH), or the moving-point assembly (Lucas). NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Now that the slip ring has dried off, replace the pick-up(s). 0000003086 00000 n This induces an EMF in the coil, which in turn causes a current to flow. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). Parts lists and workshop instructions, not If you can see the slip-ring through the pick-up hole in the main housing, check that the brass ring or segment of the slip-ring is brass coloured (albeit possibly a bit dirty or tarnished), but not completely black. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). 0000005952 00000 n if it doesn't jump 3/16" double check the points to see if they are shiny clean the whole face of each point. Magnetic - Check magnetism and Remagnetise magneto body. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. 0000013093 00000 n If sloppy, consider fitting a new moving point (Lucas), bush (BTH), or pivot post. Grease. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Even if the points surfaces look good, clean them with fine emery cloth to remove any oxide layer. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. I pulled my B34 out after the winter and could not get it started. Great write up, with video even! We also sell our Brightspark range of Check out our magneto armature winding service. I would be interested to hear from people who either have seen this running or know of similar setups in forges. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) 0000007301 00000 n We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. Check the state of the heel of the moving-point assembly. This is really common on original units as the Lucas condensers were made from wax paper and foil. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. 0000002567 00000 n Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. unfortunately the repair did not work as the Coil did not work so it had to be sent to rewinding. (Chinese) Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. Our preferred gap for spark testing in fresh air is 6 mm. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. And a f-ing video! equipment. Italiana Check for wear and replace any worn parts. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. This dissipates the energy that was stored in the condenser in time for the next closure of the points, leaving the condenser discharged and ready to repeat the cycle. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). with a fixed register in the cam housing and with the advance/retard actuator). Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F .
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